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Why not forced labor, too? 2005-02-12 00:14:29
by nuzod
My friend just showed me this article about a "behavior-modification center" in Jamaica. As soon as I read it I thought about the movie Oldboy. Even if you don't speak Korean, watch it. Fucking excellent.

Now, discuss!

Re: Why not forced labor, too? 2005-02-12 18:52:53
by darklighter
One word. Brainwash camp. Kids end up that way when parents are too busy to be a part of their kids lives. Of course theres always some extremes but is it worth it? What do you define as out of control? It's not right on so many levels, is my opinion. Forcing kids to act like society wants them, and using any means to do it. Why is it in another country? cuz it would be ABUSE in most others. Abusing a child to do what you want them to do. So do the means outweight the result? Kinda of like asking is the death of thousands of soliders worth a war that is not our own? think on it :)
Re: Why not forced labor, too? 2005-02-13 18:33:23
by marasmus
Wow. That Tranquility Bay brings a LOT of thoughts to mind. There are so many edgy questions and decisions stacked atop each other that it really makes the situation confusing... Most of those questions come down to personal ethics, but there's one question in particular that I'm really concerned with.

I normally lean more toward supporting civil liberties than supporting "order" (define it as you wish), and I'd wager to say that American society and culture already has pretty comprehensive methods for dealing with "troubled teens". There are some circumstances where the system fails to help kids... Hell, there are plenty of juvenile criminals that become career criminals. There are plenty of people who never get their lives going how they want them and struggle with society until the day they die.

Where does one draw the line between the sanctity of a person's right to their own mind and the rights of a culture to decide how an individual's mind works? Is there a point where it's acceptable to forcibly alter someone's mind for the greater benefit of society? This goes beyond the scope of Orwellian thought-programming such as Tranqulity Bay. What about involuntary mental hospitals, forced psychoactive drugs, or even court-ordered psychologist visits? I can accept a breaking point where a person loses their freedom due to conflict with society, but I have a much harder time accepting any point where society can interefere with someone's unalienable right to themselves.

Now, if someone chooses to enter a mental hospital, or take psychoactive drugs, or enter a "behavioral modification" program, or take the 'courses' of the Church of Scientology, that I feel is their right. They have made the choice and they have the right to decide how their mind works. Likewise, I think if someone wants to drink a gallon of LSD and be totally tripped into outer space for the rest of their life, that's also their choice. Chances are good that their choice has social consequences and may require putting them into protective custody (such as a mental hospital), but that's a known consequence they've chosen.

Ultimately, should Society have the right to override the Individual's choices about itself? This has been the prime sociological battleground since the industrial revolution. At the end of the Victorian era, Society was king. Slowly our culture has been leaning more and more toward the Individual's rights. Underneath all those surface issues, this is the real dividing line between political parties. Which is superior, Society or Individual? It's one hell of a question.
Re: Why not forced labor, too? 2005-02-14 22:39:14
by nuzod
I'm still trying to form an opinion myself. I'll say that I agree with it for the most part and I think the idea is hilarious, but for all intents and purposes, it's a prison. How many people who go to jail or prison are repeat offenders? I've never been to either one, but I'd say I have some experience in faking the way I feel to get what I need. It just seems to me they're running the risk of creating some very bitter, vengeful individuals. Kind of like Ludovico's Technique in A Clockwork Orange; is it so far off?